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2nd-Dec-2007 11:13 am
I was involved in a discussion with friends and one of the things that was brought up is the nature of humanity. It was a discussion of religion & atheism, and an acquaintaince of mine brought up something I've been saying for years - just not as succinctly as he has. It's a theory I've brought up in discussions/debates/arguments with others on the subjects of life, one's alleged 'soul', and whether or not life begins at conception or at consciousness. Here's what Erich had to say - when he refers to April, he's referring to his wife:
"I would put forth that there are no separate lives...that life does not ever "begin"....I would also put forth that no "new" life has ever been created - since the original spark of life - and here's why.

When April and I have a child, that process (and it is a process) commences with my living sperm uniting with her living egg. That already living thing then implants itself on her uterine wall - and for all intents and purposes is like a cyst. It embeds itself in there - and then it follows a sequence of events that grows it into a viable self-sustaining entity.

But be clear. No "new life" was created. The sperm was alive beforehand, as was the egg. That already living thing simply followed a pattern of growth that eventually produced another self-sustaining entity/person.

The life that I carry in my body is my mom and dad's life. There was no "spark of life" that entered into me. It's a carry-over. When I put a flame to a piece of paper - no "new fire" has been created. It's the same fire in a different place. I think it's the same thing with life.

My life is my mom's life. Her life was her mom's life...and on and on. Nothing new has been created...ever.

So to me - to talk about "separate and unique lives" just doesn't make sense. We're not these unique lives running around with "souls" that were imbued upon us at the instant that life came into our beings. A "new life" never came into our beings. We all share the same, original, one. It's kind of like the olympic torch - being run along - and passed from one person to another.

...and ya know...we all have our time to carry that torch...and we all have the opportunity to pass it along as well...but when our time is done...our flames will be extinguished.

At least that's how I look at it."

Me too, buddy - me too.

Make perfect sense to anyone else?
2nd-Dec-2007 04:45 pm (UTC)
That is astoundingly profound. I want to have this man's babies.
4th-Dec-2007 10:23 pm (UTC)
Me too!
2nd-Dec-2007 07:03 pm (UTC) - Remarkably enough
That's almost exactly how I explain to new Asatruar (heathens) how they pass on their family line, and connect their Orlog to their children's and how they were connected to their parents.

To the ancient heathen mindset, through various "soul parts" one passes on Luck, renown, and personal "power" (called maegin part of one's "might and mane.").

So while it does go against mainstream Xtian thinking, it doesn't against *all* religion.

Though admittedly modern heathenry has a much more humanist streak than say other alternative faiths.
2nd-Dec-2007 09:03 pm (UTC) - all is one, says the hippie
It does make sense. I think that we are all connected by this life, this fire. And I think that fire, that life and energy, is not only the connection between each and every one of us, but connected to that source that lives within all things and beyond all things, beyond a beginning and an end, so will, thusly, never be extinguished, but changed and rearranged as something else, some other energy. We are as much a part of the flame as we are a part of the moths that run to it.

It feels good to be a part of a clan. It feels good to share commonalities and family. If we rise higher, we will see we are all family, sharing the same light -all creeds, colors, sexual orientation, etc. We are the family of Man. If we raise our consciousness even higher, we will see we are connected to all that exists, everything around us and within and without us. When we raise our consciousness even higher, we know that love is the highest energy. With a higher understanding of energy, we can treat all around us - our selves, our loved ones, our neighbors, strangers, other countries, other tribes, the animals, the earth, the air, the water, etc. etc. with respect and love. That energy will come full circle, a never-ending circle of good energy.

Put. the bong. DOWN!
That is all. NAMASTE.
2nd-Dec-2007 10:06 pm (UTC)
I get it. It's sorta Buddhist, to be honest. All life is one and the same.
2nd-Dec-2007 11:37 pm (UTC)
We didn't start the fire...it was always burning since the world's been turning...*ducks*
but to be a bit more serious:
"The one brought forth the two. The two brought forth the three. The three brought forth the 10,000 things."
3rd-Dec-2007 12:35 am (UTC)
It's very much how I look at life, and how I imagine reincarnation working in my particular take on Buddhism. There is no part of "me" that is uniquely and separately "me." What I perceive of "me" is a continuation of what has come before, and will continue in many different forms after this organism is perceived as "dead."

3rd-Dec-2007 01:54 am (UTC)
This does make perfect sense, however I've always felt that people had souls, and I could never explain why, even when it doesn't have anything to do with religion.

I just think that every person has a specific...force...or something, within themselves that affects emotion, love, hatred, innate impulses about what is right and wrong. I don't think that all of that is learned or that it's all to do with synapses in the brain triggering hormones. I have no idea why I feel this, but I do, and so even though I'm not convinced on whether these souls GO anywhere (like heaven) after death, I do think every person possesses a unique soul that can (and does) affect the world and the people around them, and when they die, their souls are remembered and live on in those they have touched.
3rd-Dec-2007 10:08 pm (UTC)
i love this thread i mostly agree with the take on life and souls that your friend has and i can also see where immaculatestars is coming from
5th-Dec-2007 03:32 am (UTC)
I'm going to have to steal this idea from you and your friend Erich. Steal Napster-style, that is.
8th-Dec-2007 11:49 pm (UTC)
It makes a lot of sense to me.
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