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Islam Is NOT About Peace, It's About Bloodthirsty Imbeciles 
30th-Nov-2007 08:58 am
"Religion of peace" demands death for naming teddy bear Mohammed
Thousands of Sudanese, many carrying knives and sticks, have taken to the streets of Khartoum calling for the execution of British school teacher Gillian Gibbons, jailed over a teddy bear.

Crowds demonstrated outside the presidential palace, saying the 15-day prison sentence imposed on Mrs Gibbons for allowing her class to call a teddy bear Mohammed was too lenient.

The protesters streamed out of mosques after sermons, as pick-up trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Mrs Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool.

Hundreds of riot police were deployed as demonstrators massed in central Martyrs Square, outside the palace.

"Shame, shame on the UK," protesters chanted, and they called for Mrs Gibbons' execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."

The women's prison where Gibbons is being held is far from the site, as is the Unity High School where she taught, which is under heavy security protection.

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30th-Nov-2007 11:23 pm (UTC)
Um, no - Islam is a whole other ballgame. One need only read the Quran to see how violent and misogynistic a religion it is. All 'peaceful' Muslims are not following the religion according to the dictates in the Quran. Read Ayaan hirsi Ali's books Infidel and The Caged Virgin, she explains it perfectly in lay terms.
30th-Nov-2007 11:28 pm (UTC)
Fine...but isn't the Bible full of such stories, as well?

So couldn't one say the same thing about Christianity?

We've sort of accepted here in the West that those who want to apply Christianity to the modern world no longer take the text literally.

Could the same thing apply to Islam?

(And yes, I speak from a position of ignorance here, having only seen the Christian context of literalism...)
30th-Nov-2007 11:34 pm (UTC)
The vast majority of modern Christians now follow the New Testament, which is considerably more relaxed. There is no such version or stance on the Quran.

Seriously, you really should pick up this book this weekend - it's amazing. Illuminating view from a woman who grew up in Somalia and Saudi Arabia. She is one of my favorite writers/activists. The majority of what she writes about is the stranglehold that Islam has on its congregants, and how horrifyingly bad it is for women and girls. After years of internal questions, she finally renounced her faith after 9/11.

30th-Nov-2007 11:45 pm (UTC)
*nod* I probably should read it, actually.

I don't know if you had a chance to read it, but I posted a while back about an Islamic student I had who went through a crisis of faith after 9/11. I felt uniquely ill-equipped to help him.

I'll look into it, though I do know that there are people who ascribe to the name "Muslim" who ARE peaceful -- which is why I'm hesitant to condemn in broad strokes. Perhaps they're not really following the tenets of the religion, but they think they are in some regard or they wouldn't claim the name.

Which raises a basic question of which I don't know the answer: how does one become a member of Islam?
1st-Dec-2007 06:48 am (UTC)
Difficult to answer, actually. What made me decide I was truly an atheist was reading the bible cover to cover (which was off and on and took many years to accomplish - AND I consulted many philosophers, professors, & clerics along the way) and deciding that there was not only no such thing as God, but that it would be impossible FOR there to be such a thing. It's something I think that not even many Christians have done - or professed Muslims have done in relation to the Quran, reading the entire body of work and judging afterward if it is a valid design for living or a bunch of hooey.

There are many Christians who can claim the New Testament (the more Liberal version of the bible) as a means of circumventing the problems of old world living -vs- modern living, but even then I don't really believe they've read the entire text OR decided to live by it's constrictions word for word. Which equals fraud, I have no problem saying. Live by the word or stop claiming you do - simple! Either way, know what you're fucking talking about, right?

Also, having a basis for comparison is vital. How many Christians have read the Satanic bible by Anton Lavey? I think that they all SHOULD read it, it's a great book for starters - very entertaining - but more to the point, it's the antithesis of all things sacred in the eyes of Christian society, all things that Christians are purported to eschew - so what better means of contrast? What good is having faith if it cannot be tested for it's strength and value?

What's the fucking point of believing at all in the first place if your faith is so shakable that reading a fucking book in opposition can tear down your faith so easily? If one's faith is true and strong (and frankly worth having in the first place) then nothing can touch it - and one would actively try to test it for it's resilience and strength often. This is why I think that most people who claim to believe are really full of shit and lack the courage of their convictions. I just don't see the point of lying about it, because then you reduce it to nothing more than fashion - and that's just fucking sick, I have no respect. Be full on in your faith because you've studied and have NO questions, or question and get satisfying answers - if you don't get them, reevaluate your life and give critical thought to whether or not you REALLY believe or REALLY just want to believe. It requires balls, either have them or own not having them - either way is fine and I can respect that, as long as it's based in having done the work to arrive at one conclusion or the other.

Islam is Arabic for submission - in order to be a Muslim (pilgrim/adherent of Islam) you must completely submit to God (Allah) and follow the teachings in the Quran as dictated by the Prophet Muhammed and never question them at all - that is the point of complete submission. To be a devout Muslim, you must make the pilgrimage to Mecca (also called the Hajj, which all able bodied Muslims are required to do once) as the confirmation of your faith. To renounce your faith as a Muslim is to become an infidel, one who does not believe that Islam is the one true religion, the ultimate sin/heresy/blasphemy which demands punishment by death. No exceptions, they just gotta catch you first - and FUCK them.

Read that book and you will understand better.

Edited at 2007-12-01 06:56 am (UTC)
1st-Dec-2007 08:20 pm (UTC)
That really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Have you ever read the Old Testament? I'm sure it's about as violent as the Quran. Even if the religion itself is violent, the fact of the matter is that not all Muslims follow the religion closely. There are good people out there who are Muslims. Sure, they may not be considered "true" Muslims by the fundamentalist Muslims because they're not following the Quran word-for-word, but that still doesn't take away the fact that they're good people who happen to consider themselves Muslim.

Saying that all Muslims are violent and misogynistic is like saying that all Christians are nutjob Neoconservatives and that all Jewish people support the Israeli government's actions against Palestine. Yes, some people fall into those lines, but by applying a sweeping stereotype, you're ignoring an entire population of people who follow the religion, yet still treat other human beings with respect and dignity. Yes, it may be a small portion of the people following the religion, depending on the religion, but they still exist. And eventually, I believe that their voices will start to override the voices of violence.
1st-Dec-2007 09:10 pm (UTC)
Really? How so?

The Old Testament is nowhere near as misogynistic as the Quran. And yes, I've read them both to compare & contrast the hard-line version -vs- the more liberal one.

Not following the religion closely is where all of the inconsistencies arise, and regardless - it's all self destructive delusion as far as I'm concerned - just my opinion, I'm not suggesting anyone else agree with it. Sure there are 'good' people who claim allegiance to religions of different flavors - but my opinion that they are all damaging trumps every bit of it in my eyes. I'm an atheist, I'm not a 'good' person because some book or preacher suggests that is the way to be, I am a good person because I choose to be independent of some dogma offering me a cosmic payoff for being a good man. Being religious is hardly the best gateway to morality.

Back to that inconsistency thing - these texts, these sacred texts, they're not intended to be help up to scrutiny by adherents, you're supposed to take it on the whole and not edit out the parts you disagree with.

No - not all Muslims are violent, but if they took the literal interpretation of the Quran as they are supposed to, they most assuredly would by - just ask any Saudi Arabian citizen. You either follow the dictates of the Prophet, of you're not really in the club. Or cult, you decide. Can't have it both ways. I'm not making a sweeping stereotype, I'm stating the fact that the people you suggest as following the religion in this case ARE NOT really following it! Calling oneself an astronaut does not make you one, no matter how badly you may wish you were - it's pretty cut and dry, you are or you aren't. Am I grateful they're not the kind of people that behead as punishment and enslave women? Of course I am - I just wish they're renounce this bullshit they claim they believe in when clearly it doesn't believe in them. THAT is my point. When the overriding voices say in unison "I want nothing to do with this bullshit - if that is really what it is, let me have no part of it" then I can take them seriously. To make such a declaration as a Muslim is literally to sign you own death warrant. Islam = justifiable bloodshed and sanctioned enslavement. Don't take my word for it - read up on it and do some homework if you disagree. See it all for yourself.

2nd-Dec-2007 04:09 am (UTC)
No - not all Muslims are violent..

That's all I was looking for.

As far as whether you either are or aren't a follower of religion.. That's not the case. Religion has all sorts of shades of gray, which is why it's such a controversial topic. Would you say that a Christian who doesn't go to church isn't Christian?

I judge a person on their actions, not their religion. And, honestly, I'm more the type of person that assumes the best of all people, no matter how often it gets me kicked in the ass. *laughs*

In my opinion, religion isn't just a "delusion". It's something that a lot of people need for whatever reason. By stating that it's a delusion, you're being as judgmental and close-minded as every fundamentalist theist out there. Just because you find your peace in atheism doesn't mean that everyone has to find their peace in atheism. People are different, and where every person finds their peace is different. We'd all be better off as a race if we would accept that.

And that's all I'm going to say on the whole religion vs. atheism debate, because I know that we're probably not going to come to an agreement on that particular topic and I don't want to waste any more of your time. :)

Edited at 2007-12-02 04:22 am (UTC)
2nd-Dec-2007 03:59 pm (UTC)
A Christian is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Lord God and savior of all mankind - it isn't a religion in that respect, necessarily. Going to church has nothing to do with it either, really. I used to have a sticker that said "If going to church makes you a Christian, does going to the garage make you a car?" I loved that sticker, I want it on a t-shirt!

I assume nothing about people - and judge on actions as well. Good call!

Indeed, in many respects I AM being judgmental and closed-minded, which I am more than fine with. There has to be a point in your life that you decide some things are finite and therefore it gives me a predisposition. It's not that I am necessarily opposed to the whole or religious people, it's the fact that I have a lot of odds stacked against me when I'm considering certain things with a religious person as opposed to a nonreligious one. I base this on an entire lifetime of experiences of my own, so it is fair as far as I'm concerned - I speak for no one but myself.

Man's need religion usually begins as a fear of death. Rather than doing any critical thinking, most people default to religion or faith simply because they're indoctrinated early and taught not to question - so it never occurs to them given that this is the way it has always been within their families and communities. Of course I'm a minority, most people wouldn't find peace in atheism without giving it tremendous thought and asking very difficult questions - and not everyone is going to, nor do I personally expect them to. I've never suggested that all people need to renounce their faith in God, even if I believe it is a good idea as it would cause mass hysteria. Perhaps we would be better off if we accepted one another, but it's never going to happen, sadly. You can blame religion for that by the way. Nothing divides people quite the way that religion does.

You're not wasting my time, I'm not afraid of disagreement. Remember, I'm a godless faggot living in the south - I don't need anyone to agree with me in order for me to know that what I believe is right for me. ;-)
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