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What are we fighting for? 
12th-Nov-2006 12:21 am
I've been doing considerable thinking on the subject of marriage equality lately, and I'm coming to believe that I no longer support the idea - all sarcasm aside. Not for the reasons most people do, but for something bigger. It is not that I think that we gay folks don't deserve the same legal rights as our take-it-all-for-granted heterosexual counterparts, not at all. Here's the thing - I don't want to model myself after straight people on the issue of marriage, and it's much more than histrionics or semantics. Marriage in this country is not AT ALL what has been used as a club to beat us with, which is the entire basis for my argument. Marriage does not equal love, it equals Britney Spears. I could stop here, but unlike that cunt I go the extra mile. And before you ask, yes - I'm fucking bitter. I re-read a previous post I'd made back in May, and it was the catalyst for this.

Consider the initial facts. The divorce rate in this country (as of 2005) is 52%, a ratio of marriages to divorces is 2 to 1 give or take. Roughly half end in divorce, the other in death. What the fucking hell is so sanctimonious about that? Anyone? Kiss my motherfucking ass, but I think I'm better than that. I think that a 48% rate of success is NOTHING to strive for or model oneself after, it barely passes as mediocrity and that's just fucking ridiculous. The vast majority of the people screaming about the sanctity of marriage not ONLY have no clue what that even means, but they're either products of the statistics or they're the ones creating them. It's tantamount to MEN having the say in a woman's reproductive rights, which is absolutely insane to me. Let me be clear on that issue before I go any further with the current one - I am pro-choice. I'm a male, ergo I logically default to pro-choice. If you're a woman and you choose not to have an abortion, YOU ARE pro-choice. If you're a man and therefore have no ovaries, JUST SHUT THE GODAMNED HELL UP. There is NO SUCH THING as pro-abortion, it is FAR from an easy choice, and unless you're faced with it you have NO idea what the fuck you're talking about. Women don't have abortions so that straight, fundamentalist Christian men can have something to negate later, contrary to popular belief. If you consider yourself pro-life, go to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, DC and rather than holding up placards of supposedly aborted fetuses, use pictures of soldiers' coffins exported from Iraq. Put your goddamned money where your mouths are you vapid, microcephalic, Jesus pimping, cousin fucking, tampon sucking whores. Find another Terri Schiavo to exploit and fuck right off, asshole. I'm idling at acerbic here, just so you know.

Argue semantics with me all day long, that's kind of the point. If the argument from the opposition is all about religious sanctification and idealism, and that works within the majority of the state and federal governments as a means for giving carte blanche to discrimination, then fine. Whine, complain, be victimized, and keep beating the same dead horses until insanity sets in. OR, realize that the past/current emphasis on marriage equality has become the gay rights' equivalent of 'stay the course'. It isn't up to the opposition to stoke positive change. Equality is a nice idea, but the practicality of seeing it to fruition is almost impossible - at least on any truly beneficial scale. Religious conjecture dictates the majority rules of thought (or lack thereof).

The differences between various legal arrangements have little to do with the overall mindset of the status quo, and that's most of the problem. It's not changing the way THEY think, it's changing the way WE think. They'll ignore proof - any suggestion of it - in favor of faulted logic and mythical superstition. Broken down further, while some cities and states offer Domestic Partnership benefits and Vermont’s Civil Unions certainly guarantees more benefits than any other domestic partnership program to date, these systems still fall short of Civil Marriage. Only Civil Marriage can truly give gay and lesbian couples all the protections afforded by the Federal and individual state governments and ensure equality in the eyes of the law:

Promotes a
Promotes a SEPARATE AND UNEQUAL system.
Opposite-sex couples
enjoy full EQUALITY.
Society does
not view the commitment of domestic partnerships nearly the same as
Same-sex love stigmatized as couples are classified by the state
as distinctly different.
Partners are supported
and applauded for committing themselves to their mate.
Society does
not view the commitment of domestic partnerships nearly the same as
Same-sex love stigmatized as couples are classified by the state
as distinctly different.
Partners are supported
and applauded for committing themselves to their mate.
Partners register
and are not counted as legal partners in almost every state but 3.
Partners in a "certified" “civil union”.
Partners in a “sanctified” "marriage".
to non-married couples in certain cities and states; some depend on
Currently available only in Vermont.
Available to opposite-sex
couples in all 50 states.
A couple with
D.P. status in New York City will lose all rights and protections if
they move to Cleveland, Little Rock, or Dallas. Also, if one partner,
whose company offers D.P. benefits, changes his/her employer, the couple
is no longer covered.
Not portable to other states. All benefits & legal protections
lost if couple moves out of state.
Portable throughout
all 50 states.
receive a handful of rights and responsibilities and vary from place
to place, given that each benefits program is unique.
Couples receive c. 300 state rights, but none of the 1,049 Federal
rights, incl. immigration, social security spousal benefits, etc.
Couple receives all
state PLUS ALL Federal legal rights and responsibilities.
Same-sex couple applying for
D.P. must prove the relationship by showing legal documents, bank statements,
deeds/leases or shared bills.
Legal rights and protections
such as adoptions and medical decisions can still be contested, forcing
D.P. couples to “jump through legal hoops.”
Employees pay for coverage
with post-tax dollars, and then must pay taxes on employers' share
of payment for benefits as added income.

Do any of the institutions available to gay people trump DOMA? No, they don't. Therefore equality in this case is a pipe dream. Families, statistically speaking (in particular those including children), are a lot more fundamentally similar across the board regardless of sexuality. I personally think the biggest differences are in the obvious. The only real threat to marriage is divorce, and the people with the highest rates for divorce are - you guessed it - BORN-AGAIN, EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS! The contradictions are stunning, but at least the hypocrisy is consistent. It comes down to politics in the end though - it always does. Partisan politics? Not really (read: Clinton & DOMA). But it IS mostly the Conservatives who wave these flags and they're the ones in the least position to do so. Of course, they all have to get royally fucked before the tide begins to turn.

So again, I revert to the revised Gay Agenda. If they want to make it about the label, help them by doing what they do best - turn that label into absolute shit. It's the only chance there is realistically speaking for equality.
1. Gay men and lesbians should marry one another, and extol each other every tangible and intangible benefit the institution provides. They cannot stop gay marriage as long as gays are marrying. If you are gay and single without a desire to marry, marry a homosexual of the opposite sex anyway, and donate any marriage credits the government may offer to any gay organization seeking to destroy heterosexual norms.

2. Once benefits are secured, divorce. Wreck the sanctity of the institution by driving up the divorce rates from the current 52% to at least 80%.

3. Remember 52% of marriages end in divorce, the remaining 48% in death. There's nothing sanctimonious about that. Demand the institution and then wreck it. James Dobson was right about our evil intentions. We just plan to be quicker than he thought.
Once again, I say REVOLUTION.

Agree with me or not, don't ask me for permission to link to this - just do it.

DISCLAIMER: No marriages of any kind were threatened, destroyed, incinerated, maimed, harassed, harmed, or otherwise negated in any form within the conception, composition, execution, or completion of this post.
(Deleted comment)
12th-Nov-2006 04:43 am (UTC)
I love you too. Link & spread the word!
12th-Nov-2006 04:45 am (UTC)
I fuckin' love you.

And, since you said this was the best way to Raise A Flag with you, if you get the chance please take a gander at my own musings on some possible fallout from this most recent election.
12th-Nov-2006 04:47 am (UTC)
I love you too - and I will, as long as you link to this post & pimp it out. Deal?
12th-Nov-2006 04:58 am (UTC)
<---straight woman now taking applications for gay husbands

I have no desire to stay married to anyone (straight or gay,) but I think it would be fun to say that I've had 30+ husbands. ;)
12th-Nov-2006 05:02 am (UTC)
Thank you, we all must do our part. While you're at it, marry an immigrant and throw him a bone.
12th-Nov-2006 05:21 am (UTC) - I've had a couple of cocktails...
"Here's the thing - I don't want to model myself after straight people on the issue of marriage, and it's much more than histrionics or semantics."

I have been saying this for years. Why should you WANT to sidle up to what heterosexuals consider rules of the game of partnership? Shit, looks like they really believe in the sanctity of that institution. I say make your OWN way; make your own partnership rules. Any lawyer worth his/her salt knows this is a hotbed of litigation, especially with big businesses regarding health care, time off for family death, insurance, adoption, etc.

I'm telling you, the law suits started the cigarette companies to stop making cartoon camels shooting pool and smoking to attract kids. The lawsuits stopped the fast food places from using melted shit with which to cook their foods. If there are enough lawsuits on Blue Cross/Blue Shields doorstep, you better BELIEVE there will be a policy for domestic partnership.

Millions of dollars in lawsuits talk; bullshit walks. I know there is a lot of bullshit lawsuits, but you want your voices heard, become a united front and start making waves - YOUR waves. I wouldn't want to try and model my life after a bunch of folks who don't respect the marriage vow, anyway. Like me, I would NEVER marry in the Catholic church. I don't want to aspire to be a handmaiden to God, and I don't give a shit whether the Catholic church acknowledges my union. Fuck that church. All I acknowledge is their bullshit and their hypocrisy.

Why do you want to be a member? I make my own normal. I'm not saying you shouldn't; if you are happy in a house in the burbs, God bless. Honestly. But why bang your head against the wall with this? I don't know why any person would want to even knock on the door of an institution that is crumbling anyway.

Jude, you wrote SO many things in this entry, I can only take it in one paragraph at a time, and the first few sentences sent me here to concur with you on the marriage issue. We may even dislike it for different reasons.
12th-Nov-2006 05:24 am (UTC) - Re: I've had a couple of cocktails...
Shit like this is why I love & adore you, N!
12th-Nov-2006 05:30 am (UTC)
And by Domestic Partnership, I mean how it SHOULD be all encompassing, like a civil union, not how a DP is now.
12th-Nov-2006 05:34 am (UTC)
It's all a big joke designed to try and keep the uppity faggots & dykes at the back of the pink bus, either that or it's the
(Deleted comment)
12th-Nov-2006 07:26 am (UTC)
I love it when you get worked up.

IIRC, Top 12 states in terms of divorce rate: 11 were red Bush states in 2004.

State with lowest divorce rate: Massachusetts, where gay marriage was supposed to destroy the institution of marriage.
12th-Nov-2006 09:39 am (UTC)
So again, I revert to the revised Gay Agenda. If they want to make it about the label, help them by doing what they do best - turn that label into absolute shit. It's the only chance there is realistically speaking for equality.

Why respond to assholes by becoming one yourself? This makes me think of a wise proverb I have heard, first in reference to chatting with trolls online:
Never argue with fools - it lowers you down to their level, and they beat you with experience
12th-Nov-2006 12:44 pm (UTC)
I don't believe it IS further engaging in argument with the fundies & such, if anything it's reasoned logic that just happens to rub their noses in their own shit. It's not a response per sé, more of a declaration. This is the most logistical place I've found so far within this debate/fight.
(Deleted comment)
12th-Nov-2006 12:52 pm (UTC)
Yet another reason I don't give a shit about marriage. Fidelity is fine if it works for you, and I encourage it for those that find it a prerequisite. It's not an essential component of my relationship, so for us it would need to be different not just for the above reasons stated - but this one as well.

I wouldn't care to see a scenario like the one you describe above, if only because straight people not valuing their love (or calling something love that really isn't) is what makes the institution of marriage (or matrimony, for that matter) empty and hollow. It's just fashion. I think that as a minority we should be better than that. Then again, I don't think that anyone under age 25 should think about being married PERIOD, and that in order to be married you must live with the partner for at least 5 years prior. But that's just me.
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
12th-Nov-2006 02:33 pm (UTC)
"If you're a man and therefore have no ovaries, JUST SHUT THE GODAMNED HELL UP. There is NO SUCH THING as pro-abortion, it is FAR from an easy choice, and unless you're faced with it you have NO idea what the fuck you're talking about."

Thank you. Just.. thank you. I loved you before this post, and I will love you after- but THANK YOU for saying that. Men need to stay the hell out of it. Seriously.
12th-Nov-2006 03:10 pm (UTC)
I really like what you've said. My circle of friends is not large, but your words shall pervade it. I also like your idea to push up the divorce rate. That was stunning. Before that, I had thought, as I always think when smart people point out the stupidity of the majority, "but it's impossible to convince them to look at the issue differently." Yours may very well force them!

:/ I'm not gay, so I can't help much more than spreading this around. Or can I?
12th-Nov-2006 04:35 pm (UTC)
Thank you for posting this. This is awesome!
17th-Jan-2008 11:24 am (UTC) - Great work
Great site! You can find related info on the following sites:
12th-Nov-2006 11:26 pm (UTC)
I just thought of this. I just started working for Pepsi in the past month and we had to fill out health insurance for 2006-2007. In 2007, they added the option for gay and lesbian couples to provide insurances for their domestic partners. I was very surprised, and very pleased, when I saw this in the book.
13th-Nov-2006 12:23 am (UTC)

I couldn't agree more with this post.

Any relationship is a matter of give and take, made up of day by day compromises. Some people straight or gay are never ready for that kind of relationship.

People like Brittany, Paris Hilton, and others like her do not live in the every day reality that most of us do.

Jill said she read earlier today that K-Fed spent $50 million during his two year hitch. Much like joining the army to be all he could be to Brittany (or spend) obviously. That wasn't a marriage that was a two year grab all you can before the gravy train stops, shopping spree.

What in the hell did he spend $50 million dollars on? With that money 500 families hit by Katrina could have a new $100,000 house free and clear. And I'm sure would have appreciated it more than K_Fed who is looking for more. And threatening to sell a video of his honeymoon with Brittany. Boy with that kind of love who needs enemies?

Blowing $50 million dollars is just irresponsible to me with all the suffering in this world. Not even considering the two kids they brought into this world knowing it wasn't going to work.

It infuriates me to read that crap because there are some of us out here who are married, work hard to live up to the vows we made and to see people like Brittany and others make a mockery of it by getting married for 55 hours is sickening. Especially since so many want that choice, don't get a chance and the ones who have the right to legally marry throw it away like yesterday's garbage.

Larry and I met at age 16. We got engaged a year later. We dated for three years and really got to know each other very well before we said I do, and before we "did it". The relationship came first. The sex came second and it was worth the wait!

It has been a lot of hard work, getting through tough times and I get po'd when I hear that gay marriages will be the downfall of the institute of marriage in this country. This countries policies towards "human rights" in every form are the downfall of marriages and families. Period!

It has been suggested to us many times in the last few years to get divorced to qualify for government aid. Money we paid taxes into for almost 40 years, so being married legally doesn't guarantee you rights either.

In a marriage everything is considered joint unless you happen to be a woman and get disabled. I know because if I divorce Larry I get half of everything. But because I'm disabled I am not entitled to half of "OUR" money in the form of social security we paid into the system, as we earned it together during the last 34 years.

A friend of mine and her husband did divorce for that reason and that is what is destroying families, not giving "partnership rights" to gay couples. Money is the number one cause of most marriage failures and when you can't keep a family together even with two incomes it leads to many divorces.

Sadly many elderly couples must divorce or claim spousal impoverishment (as my in-laws had to do) so my FIL, who was a good cop and veteran of WWII could get nursing home care at the end of his life. This after serving this country his whole life.

I am for equal rights for everyone. I can see where you don't want to be associated with people like Brittany and Kevin who make a mockery of marriage, but there are some of us who believe in an equal, whole partnership within a marriage contract.

All this is leading up to an agreement that the only thing that will eventually be fair is to give people equal partnerships with or without a marriage contract, despite sexual orientation.

Why can't gay people form a binding legal "partnership" contract like you would in a business to get these rights? There are enough people in this country who are gay that could probably form an insurance company and pension plans for gay people only, along the lines of AARP or something. Once the money is taken out of the mainstream insurances and banks they'll lose your money. And you know the old saying "money talks".

They lose enough, and then they'll start offering it to "couples" gay or otherwise. For in the end this countries leaders, and corporations only listen to the presidents on the greenbacks.

I'm behind you 100%.

Hugs, Christina

13th-Nov-2006 04:07 am (UTC)
you know i never was really into politics and all that until i saw this site. i found it through an online friend of mine. i'm actually glad i checked this site out. thanks.
13th-Nov-2006 07:42 pm (UTC)
Once again, I applaud you.

But ya piss me off!..well, not you, but the issues piss me off.
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