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More Crackergate Bloviating: Bill Donohue Perpetrates More Dumbfuckery 
17th-Oct-2008 02:20 pm
Baby Jesus Cry
PZ Meyers has written a new post on his blog about that ridiculous, whiny, doughy pantload Bill Donohue (R-). Remember the story about the student at the university who took the eucharist wafer Jesus cracker from mass? I blogged about it here. Well, since he has nothing better to do, he's stepping up the whining. And what is the catalyst for this you ask? Okay, fine, you didn't ask, but I'll tell you anyway. A YouTuber called fsmdude has posted a series of videos depicting the desecration of the host and people are freaking out because it offends them. So this dumbass decides to try and get YouTube to ban the kid for expressing himself. Let me advise you now that no children were molested in the course of making his videos, I just want to clear that up.

Because being offended is the WORST thing that could happen to them, apparently...
....5....4....3....2....1....aaaaaand back to the happy place...
Thing is, these things only apply to other Catholics. If I want to depict Mohammed in any media I feel like, that's my prerogative - it's only Muslims who are prohibited from such acts, as that constitutes blasphemy and as we all know, blasphemy is bad. Well, unless you're an atheist, and then it's just silly. Or fun. It depends largely on the context. When the Jyllands-Posten controversy happened, Bill Donohue didn't say shit. Then again, there exists nothing outside of Catholic doctrine...

You can buy them wholesale, for fuck's sake, what's so sacred about that? Also, there are no restrictions on who can buy them, so big deal. Yeah I know, they have to be consecrated in order to be magically delicious, whatever.

Not everyone is going to like you, not everyone has to, get over yourselves! You're the same people who get all freaked out at the notion of Muslim extremism, you're terrified when words like 'jihad' and 'fatwa' get tossed around, and yet a kid finding creative ways to use a cracker - A! FUCKING! CRACKER! - is what really rattles you guys? What a pussy religion Catholicism is.

By the way, I added the box of 1,000 Communion wafers to my Amazon.com wishlist in case anyone feels the urge to assist me in debauchery.

My Amazon.com Wish List

</shameless whoredom>
17th-Oct-2008 06:57 pm (UTC)
I want some satanic chili too, as long as it comes with heavenly ale alongside.

To me, the first and biggest issue, overall, is people being assholes to each other when, really, no human beings oughta act that way to each other. Period.

To your point, unconsecrated wafers are, in fact, only (relatively bland and unpleasant) crackers. I personally am not fond of them. I suspect they'd probably much improved with some EZ Cheez but that's still not saying much. Also to your point, there's a fair amount of shit the Catholic church is responsible for over the centuries and they have no excuse for pointing out other people's assholery if they are persisting in sanctimonious self-righteousness. There are better ways for them to engage in dialogue.

From the Catholic POV, wafers once they've been blessed at the altar are (literally) Jesus Christ. To intentionally take those wafers and mess around with them, especially to flaunt what you are doing, is to be a real asshole to folks who hold the Roman Catholic faith. Even if a given agnostic or athiest thinks the Roman Catholic faith is fucked-up, it still doesn't excuse being an asshole to other human beings. There are better ways to engage in dialogue.

Margaret Cho said the essence of what she taught her Sunday School class was, "Don't be an asshole". Whether or not a person claims the faith, I think the guideline is a useful one for human relationships in general.

That's my two cents. *plink, plink*

Edited at 2008-10-17 06:58 pm (UTC)
17th-Oct-2008 07:49 pm (UTC)
I have to question the sanity of someone who literally thinks that by using magic words, a cracker can be made into Jesus. That's a tad psychotic in my opinion. And perhaps fmsdude IS being an asshole about it, but that's his right, and no one is telling Bill Donohue that he has no right to be an asshole and speak whatever is on HIS mind, you know what I mean? Perhaps he's making a bigger point here that these people raising the big stink are doing so over an idol that not only allowed free will, but isn't complaining itself by being desecrated if in fact it were Jesus.

I don't disagree with you on the merits of what you're saying here at all, but in my opinion the kid is making valid points and I personally don't find them offensive - but then it takes a LOT to really offend me. Besides, there are always going to be people who are always going to be assholes now and then, so for me the guideline is accepting that they have the right to say/do/think/feel/believe whatever they want, and whether or not I agree or even like it is inconsequential.

I hate and despise Bill Donahue, but as an American I'll defend his right to say whatever misguided, insane nonsense he chooses. I always stop at censorship though - that I take strong issue with.
17th-Oct-2008 08:11 pm (UTC)
I understand what you're saying and I guess to me the distinction is between rights-- Bill D has the right to say whatever asshole thing he wants; anyone has the right to grab a wafer and piss on it or whatever (it's not illegal)-- between rights, and civil ways of behaving between people who may vehemently disagree.

I would like to see us reach the place where, even if Bill D has the right to spout nasty verbiage, he chooses not to for the sake of civil discourse and out of respect for those with whom he disagrees; and I would like to see us reach the place where, even folks who do not believe in the Catholic religion -- even if they have the right to mess with wafers on YouTube, or whatever-- also choose not to, for the sake of civil discourse and out of respect for those with whom they disagree.

I say, let's (on all sides) respect the society as a whole and act in ways that engage all others with respect, not with baiting and trolling and hyperbole. On any side of any issue, does that stuff truly move the debate forward? That's the frame I'm coming at it from.

18th-Oct-2008 02:42 am (UTC)
They're sold as snackfood in Quebec - sort of a joke too becuase the Quebec French word for the wafers - hostie (pronounced "es-tee") is a pretty commonly used profanity (it peppers most Quebec French - virtually all the main profanities in Quebec are words for things found in a church).
18th-Oct-2008 12:56 pm (UTC)
Wow, amazing. :)
17th-Oct-2008 07:06 pm (UTC)
We could play Communion Wafer Jenga.

We could also put some wafers in a Trojan Magnum, blow it up, and have contestants pop them with penis-shaped darts, where winners receive copies of The Atheist Handbook.
17th-Oct-2008 07:49 pm (UTC)
I love you.
17th-Oct-2008 07:27 pm (UTC)
With marshmallows and a bit of Hershey bar, you could make Jesu'smores.
17th-Oct-2008 07:50 pm (UTC)
The host lacks that graham-y goodness, though.
17th-Oct-2008 08:16 pm (UTC)
well.. you could put the host crackers under the graham.. OOo and wash it down with hot chocolate made from holy water.
17th-Oct-2008 07:59 pm (UTC)
The wafers you ordered are ordinary, and no Catholic would argue that point with you. So step on them, toss them into the air, hand them to your pets, give them out to the youngins as Halloween treats if you wish. What does make the difference are the ones that have been consecrated at Mass. Even the type of material used varies-- Moravian churches used gingerbread and hot chocolate for their Communion services because that was all they typically had for food and drink
17th-Oct-2008 08:00 pm (UTC)
I find it amusing to no end that, even though the cannibalistic aspects of catholicism are REALLY FUNNY (eat his flesh, drink his blood! Eat them up, YUM!), there's an even more HILARIOUS aspect where their God is literally a cracker and they eat him. They consume their god in baked form.

If that doesn't sound witch-doctory, raindance, chickengut divining, i dunno what does.
17th-Oct-2008 09:10 pm (UTC)
This cannibalistic aspect of all forms of Christianity TERRIFIES me, I admit. And I am a Christian myself.

At least my local version of Christianity doesn't pretend that God is literally a piece of bread (what is used here in Bulgaria). I would probably want to vomit if it did.

The way you describe it, I really laughed out loud, I admit.

And the local Christianity here is SOAKED with paganism... which is one of the reasons why I like it.

18th-Oct-2008 04:31 am (UTC)
Heh heh, where would any Christian sect be without those religions that preceded it? If I were to teach Christian history, I would start several thousand years before Jesus ever entered the picture.
(Deleted comment)
17th-Oct-2008 09:22 pm (UTC)
Jesus would go right to my thighs.

What's the caloric count on deities?
17th-Oct-2008 11:45 pm (UTC)
People who are devout Christians tend to have no clue that their religion is based on pagan Sun worship and long line of gods who are slain for the good of their people and resurrected three days later. It's hardly original.

I wish people would read a little bit and think for themselves instead of swallow the pre-digested pablum they're being fed. Note that I used to be a devout Catholic until the ol' critical thinking skills kicked in.

Personally I find it enormously liberating to know where it all came from. That helps me rise above it and look for the greater meaning of life.
18th-Oct-2008 04:32 am (UTC) - I hear you!
Heh heh, where would any Christian sect be without those religions that preceded it? If I were to teach Christian history, I would start several thousand years before Jesus ever entered the picture.
18th-Oct-2008 02:22 am (UTC)
Thing is, these things only apply to other Catholics. If I want to depict Mohammed in any media I feel like, that's my prerogative - it's only Muslims who are prohibited from such acts, as that constitutes blasphemy and as we all know, blasphemy is bad.

As I'm so fond of saying to the religulous: Your hell, you burn in it.
18th-Oct-2008 04:20 am (UTC)
Man and his Symbols. Jung wrote about it years ago. It's the meaning behind things that agitates people. Kinda like pissing on a pink triangle, waving a swastika, or burning a flag. Symbols are powerful things. In a cardboard box, being shipped to a church, the wafers are not the body of Jesus. When these melty wafers are sitting in the dark in large plastic bags, it's not Jesus.

When does it become the body of Christ on Youtube? When do the crackers transubstantiate? When like-minded people are gathered and give that thing power, meaning. When do things become larger representations than what they are? And it's the symbol of the thing, therein lies the power. When you piss on something because it is a symbol of something, or turn the cross upside-down because it symbolizes Jesus, then you give it that power. When swastikas were used in early Buddhist design, no harm no foul - it didn't mean then what it means today.

If someone who is against the teachings of, say, the Babylonian Talmud, burns it in front of someone who does believe in what it contains, it can be seen as an offense. If they are tossing some Talmuds out because they got ruined in a giant flood, well, that's different.

So, if the kid was doing things with the wafers and believed they symbolize something, it generates the energy of that symbolism, and people get testy. Like Christmas trees and nativity scenes in public make some people testy because it symbolizes all the small-headed hateful things some Christians do.

And, really, why get riled at the wafers? If their faith is so strong, why does it bother them? Is that kid really ruining Jesus for them? Not at all. But people have a way of knowing how to get under each other's skins. Didn't anyone learn ANYTHING from How the Grinch Stole Christmas( the original animated version)? If all the symbols and trappings of your beliefs are gone, what have you left? Less things to get offended about, I am sure...

I'm telling you; read Carl Jung's Man and His Symbols. You'll learn a lot about the power of both religion and advertising.
18th-Oct-2008 06:02 am (UTC)
I've red James George Frazer's The Golden Bough as part of my Cultural Studies course at my previous University. The course was about Renaissance England, but certain things are universal. *laughs mischievously* I'll try to find Jung's book too. I don't know if it was ever translated in my language, and finding it in English would be a challenge too.

Well, it doesn't require a special Cultural Studies course to see how paganistic my own culture is. Maybe it's exactly the deeply inherent paganism in my people's mentality that prevented the local version of Christianity from becoming unbearable. And my own personal version is even more CUSTOMIZED, LOL!

I never made a good atheist, although I was brought up as one, and given no other choice... or maybe BECAUSE I was given no other choice. It was the Communist era in my country then, and believe or not, atheism can also be used to manipulate people: thou shalt have no religion, so that thou shalt make this ideology your "religion"... ugh!

18th-Oct-2008 02:37 pm (UTC)
My church considers the cracker a symbol. I don't want to eat a person. I'm not Hannibal, although after seeing Hannibal Rising I totally feel for the guy.
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