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Don't Be A 'Mo Foe! 
15th-Jul-2007 12:22 pm
Jesus Bird Finger
I personally know how hard it is to be in a confrontation with a fundie about ANYTHING, but especially about all things queer. What I've learned from reasoned debate tactics and from experiences giving in to my anger at the idiocy of these people is very simple, and I'll explain why. It's incredibly simple, really. To argue logic with someone who has none, however well versed, is an act of violent stupidity which should be punishable by flogging.

Arguing God/Jesus/religion with a fundie is like arguing sobriety with a raging alcoholic. They'll come up with every excuse in the book, they'll invent new and (in their view) clever ones to legitimize their claims, but never once relent on the fact that they are devout in their faith and do not care if it flies in the face of any logic whatsoever. YOU WILL NEVER EVER GET YOUR POINT UNDERSTOOD OR ACCEPTED BY A FUNDAMENTALIST, NOT EVER. These people are fucking robots, and it is a complete waste of time. They're as stupid and insolent as people can get - and it's what they choose for themselves, so trying to educate them is an insult to all enlightened people. Besides, if a person is resolved that no matter what you do that generates good in the world you're still inherently evil and going to burn in hell forever, why should you care WHAT they think about you in the first place? How is it that their opinions come to matter and define you as a person?

If you know you're a good person and that you do right by people because it's the truth, then that's good enough - no matter who else agrees with you. If you are a good person who does good things by people because it is the right thing to do rather than doing it for some reward or incentive (read: heaven), and the people in your life love and support you in your endeavors, then why in the world would you allow some fishbrained, microcephalic, self-righteous lunatics to define you?

If you ever have the misfortune to encounter these societal maggots, the best thing you can do is to stand up for yourself and for intelligent, compassionate people everywhere by not engaging them. They want attention and converts, and frankly we're too smart for that, so ignore them. Roll your eyes, laugh to yourself if you must, and get on with your life. If you let these people get the best of you by giving them enough power over you to allow you to be upset by their nonsense, then accept responsibility for being more feebleminded and ridiculous than they are.

Some people are never going to like you, and they don't have to, so get over yourselves. They are just as entitled to their opinions and rights to free speech as I or anyone else is, no matter how wrong or misguided, so get over yourselves. This is not a world that embraces diversity on the whole, so stop worrying about this stupid shit and get busy having a good time, living a good life, being a good person, and doing what you want - no matter who likes it and who doesn't. What I do with my own ass is my own fucking business, and I give two shits who has a problem with it. I'm not wasting one second of my life worrying about that, to do so validates the people who think I'm wrong for how I live, and prevents me from having a better life.

Not for one single second.
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15th-Jul-2007 04:48 pm (UTC)
15th-Jul-2007 04:36 pm (UTC) - Hey there..
Glad to see "'mo foe" is taking off! It makes me laugh every time.

I do want to say one thing on this, as at "Good As You," challenging anti-gay rhetoric is what we do. However, in doing so, we are not (typically) speaking to the staunchly anti-gay person -- we are speaking to the scared mother of a gay son who needs real information. By putting a counterpoint to the anti-gay point out into the ether, we will hopefully help to correct the untruths that are out there. That way when they Google someone like James Dobson or Tony Perkins or one of their respective organizations, they will not only find their gay demonization, but also some gay defense.


Jeremy Hooper
Good As You
15th-Jul-2007 04:39 pm (UTC) - Re: Hey there..
I hear you loud and clear, and that is in part why I believe what I do. I'm not interested in changing the minds of people who drink the proverbial Kool-Aid, but in those that allow themselves to be defined by someone with an anti-gay Kool-Aid moustache. Know what I mean?
15th-Jul-2007 04:52 pm (UTC)
Sorry, AB, I only flog women. ;)
15th-Jul-2007 04:53 pm (UTC)

15th-Jul-2007 04:59 pm (UTC)
15th-Jul-2007 05:03 pm (UTC)
Word, dude. Fucking WORD.

This is the best Sunday sermon I've heard in a long, long time.
16th-Jul-2007 02:20 am (UTC)
Werd to tha muthaberd!
16th-Jul-2007 05:00 pm (UTC)
Sweet Jesus, I love your icon!
16th-Jul-2007 05:15 pm (UTC)
Thanks! Wish I could say I made it, but I didn't. (Most of my icons were either found or made for me.) As far as I'm concerned, you're free to take it for yourself and share the love.
16th-Jul-2007 05:24 pm (UTC)
HOORAY! Thanks!
16th-Jul-2007 05:47 pm (UTC) - meeting people is easy.
I am a literary editor. Perhaps we can friend one another for our music and literary fancies? I am a bit of a music junkie-freak myself. We may have lots in common. Plus, the differences may be interesting too.
16th-Jul-2007 05:50 pm (UTC) - Re: meeting people is easy.
Please do! And if you need a writer, feel free to let me know - I'm looking to advance my career.
15th-Jul-2007 05:18 pm (UTC)
The only reason I give a rat's ass what these fools say is because these fools have the ability to influence my life through horrible legislation, enactment of restrictions, and hell, even violence should they put their minds to it.

To me, they are an intractable enemy to be destroyed. You can't reason with them, and they won't change their position. Our position has to do with OUR own lives, and their position has to do with THEM interfering in our lives.

We will win eventually, but we must be without mercy and unrelenting. They won't stop until we're sidelined, buried or gotten rid of. One group will ultimately prevail, and it will most likely be us. Still, crush them and grind their bones into powder until they either stop or are rendered unable to affect our lives in any way.. and make sure you incapacitate them they can never get up and try again.
16th-Jul-2007 02:19 am (UTC)
Fair enough.

Define 'destroyed'. If you mean to accomplish this with intelligence, then I'm all for it. All things considered, it really wouldn't be that hard.
15th-Jul-2007 05:41 pm (UTC)
When I was a student in Miami in the early 70s and had just started my exploration of J. Krishnamurti's work, I would frequently be accosted by one group of christian automatons or another, (back then there was a group called "The Children of God" who went around in white robes with symbolic yokes around their necks - they may still be around for all I know).
I found out quite early on that trying to get them to see beyond their limited philosophy was more than a waste of time, it also sapped energy. It only took a couple of "discussions" for me to get it.
In those days I was often by myself, a sure sign of my "obvious" loneliness as far as they were concerned, and evidence of the need for their ministry. I became quite adept at putting them off without engaging them, something that some of my friends didn't quite manage to do as they would often get into heated and pointless arguments with one or another of them.
I see the same mentality attending every Pride parade here in Portland and, while I rather enjoy the theatre they provide, I'm always amazed at how many people insist on getting into dust-ups with them, as if they could ever "win" an argument against those who refuse to see. I just throw the supposed words of Jesus back at them, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
16th-Jul-2007 02:18 am (UTC)
MMMM... Krishnamurti... I like "Think On These Things" best.

The only time I ever said anything serious to one of the pride dwelling fundies is when I said that if he really wanted to do what Jesus would do, he'd have to walk in the parade himself with all the sinners and heathens.
16th-Jul-2007 05:03 pm (UTC)
And lemme guess...HE DIH-INT!
15th-Jul-2007 06:38 pm (UTC)
I agree with you 110%.

I've been accosted, when feeling lonely and when everything seems to be going wrong in life, by some of my self-professed Christian friends who say ... just give it all to God. Trust in Him .. etc.

Well, I've tried that .. and it hasn't worked. Right now, I believe that only we have the power to change the things that are wrong in life. So, never stop trying.

I wouldn't deny them their beliefs for a moment because we are all entitled to believe in something, whatever works for us ... but ... saying your beliefs are wrong and theirs are right ... is just ... wrong.
16th-Jul-2007 02:16 am (UTC)
This is why I call them 'sheeple', because they just baa baa baa without giving any thought to what's coming out of their mouths at all before saying it.
16th-Jul-2007 05:23 pm (UTC)
Faith is a tough road. And when you are accosted by the "faithful," well, that makes things even harder. It flies in the face of logic, honestly. That's why it's called a leap. It's not an easy step over a line into magicland. It makes no sense, makes you feel powerless, and that freaks me out plenty. I've given it up plenty of times and have responded with "THAT'S YOUR ANSWER? ARE YOU HIGH?" But on that road, I've learned about myself - I'm still learning. SO, maybe I did get an answer. I doubt it's all designed to make us give up our own power to something greater; I think it's more about tapping into a higher mode of being via tapping into the source, and that helps us on our journey to self-realization and happiness. Heck, i'm shooting for contentment. I guess I'm a Christian Buddhist. :D

Fundies make it look easy; all you gotta do is point at someone who is not doing what you do and scream at them, tell them they are wrong cuz Jesus sez so. That doesn't take faith. That takes self-righteousness. Well, that's not the path to enlightenment, no matter what.

I concur; you have got to remain active and take steps to improve your situation, take the time to think things through. Whether it was Buddha or Jesus, they both sat in quiet and waited for a long time for the answers to come from within, not some magical lightning bolt that makes everything hunky dory. There may be a higher energy out there guiding us, or an inner consciousness that guides us. It's hard sometimes to hear it resonate. Some have tapped into it, and some have not -yet.

I don't think for a second that the hateful spittle-specked screamers have found their connection to a higher energy that promotes compassion, forgiveness, and love. Not a chance. I think they are wrong in that they cause distress and harm to others.
16th-Jul-2007 01:58 am (UTC)
I added you because I lurve you.
16th-Jul-2007 02:15 am (UTC)
And I appreciate it, therefore I thank you ;-)
16th-Jul-2007 04:58 pm (UTC)
I think Jesus would agree!
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